Sunday, May 07, 2006

A Normal Society



Whilst I certainly am not a follower of Islam, I can , as an Orthodox Christian support modesty in street attire. According to Orthodox Christian Canon law , this is exactly how Greek women should be dressing....


With Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's ascension to Iran's presidency, there has been a marked change in the country's stance on a number of issues. One such issue concerns a new domestic crackdown on women who do not follow the strict Islamic dress code. Teams of patrols are seen on the streets of Tehran, and in some other large cities, busting young girls — in some cases boys — and taking them into detention. Offenders are sometimes even struck with police batons. (LINK)

12 Comments:

Blogger iranianforaryans said...

Good point, HN. I, too, believe in modesty in attire, however, I'm not as prudish as the Islamists, and sundry puritans.
As closer to truth as the Muslims might be to attire, it is abysmal to live under their thumb. Indeed, these pious-types are the breed that outlaw women from singing. Thus, opera is outlawed in their nations. A nation without a beautiful lyric soprano is empty, and ugly.
There must be a happy medium between modesty, and beauty. Perhaps European clothing styles from a century or so ago are the way to go?

5:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the hellenic nationalist is nuts. I agree with the Iranian guy maybe clothing from Europe a hundred years ago is fine. But what you showed isnt modest its creepy. The woman look like bandits.

9:24 AM  
Blogger Hellenian said...

As in all things, in legislating laws for modesty in attire there can be no half-measures. Half-measures are what eventually pave the way for change.

That is precisely why Western European clothing from a century or two ago could never be accepted in a Helleno-Orthodox society. Although certainly preferable to the slutty dress that the majority of modern Greek women wear today, it's still not an acceptable alternative because such clothing still accentuate a woman's physique. No matter how modest, any clothing that accentuates a woman's physique will, given time, lead to the sluttish attire of today.

That said, I don't believe that attire for women in a Helleno-Orthodox society should follow Islamic models. A headscarf is sufficient. There is no reason why the woman's face should even be partly covered.

11:13 PM  
Blogger iranianforaryans said...

But Hellenian, one could make the argument that showing a woman's face in public will also lead to future "sluttish attire".

It depends on the state of civilization and culture that a society is in.

6:37 PM  
Blogger caliibre said...

Those that insist on enforcing women’s dress codes which, in the most conservative examples, force women to go about in what could be viewed as ‘sacks’ with eye holes cut in them are not, in my view, protecting the honour of women. Rather they are dishonouring themselves by demonstrating that they don’t have the strength of character, sincerity of spirit or personal will to control their own basest instincts. The emotional (EQ) and spiritual (SQ) quotients of intelligence seem to be lacking in many. IQ is a ‘fluke’ and is not enough, the other two quotients are essential in large amounts to overcome personal stupidity or is it that they suffer from plain old ‘dumbness’ borne of a cultural indoctrination that looks to the past and pleads for the return of the ‘dark ages’!

5:34 AM  
Blogger Hellenian said...

One could indeed make the argument that showing a woman's face in public could lead to future sluttish attire. However, such an argument would be unconvincing for lack of historical precedents, and therefore unreasonable. I do agree, though, that "the state of civilization and culture that a society is in" is a major factor in this question -- but I don't hold that it is the *only* factor. Even a disciplined culture could steadily degenerate due to immodest displays over an extended period of time.

7:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Hellenic Nationalist this is the ''EOKA ASSASSIN'', i've forget my password therefore i was wondering since ur the admin of ur blog and can probs check wat my password is, if u could please email me my password?
thanx

EOKA.ASSASSIN@gmail.com


anyways,

Woman should be I.M.O. made to wear clothes that

1. Completely cover their legs,

2. completely cover their entire upper body (arms, chest, shoulders, bra straps, neck etc.)

The only skin that should be shown is her face/head and hands. (although girl's wearing a headscarf i don't think is such a bad idea, and would probs be even better.)

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EOKA ASSASSIN:


'''Quote from Anonymous
I think the hellenic nationalist is nuts. I agree with the Iranian guy maybe clothing from Europe a hundred years ago is fine. But what you showed isnt modest its creepy. The woman look like bandits.'''

she doesnt look lyk a bandit at all i.m.o. :) ... she looks lyk a decent girl, which is the complete opposite of wat i can say about 99.5% of the sluts in the West

9:54 AM  
Blogger iranianforaryans said...

Hellenian,

Interesting line of argument, however, I must disagree, again. A woman showing her face is itself tempting, and is sufficient for the beginning of the end. Indeed, the presence of a woman - period - is a temptation. But, that's life. Life is a temptation.

I don't believe in running away from one's woes, like the "Saints", nor in forcing women to wear clothes that are ridiculous, a la Islamic attire.

5:38 PM  
Blogger Hellenian said...

I do not believe that a woman showing her face is any more or any less tempting than it is for a man to show his face.

Clothing issue aside, your assertion that that saints (and by saints I naturally mean Orthodox saints) "believe in running away from one's woes" demonstrates an ignorance regarding the lives of Orthodox saints. Even monks who take up strict ascetism do not do so in order to "run away" from anything.

3:57 PM  
Anonymous stacie said...

this is not true. i was baptized greek orthodox at three months. as a women the canons only require that the top of your head is covered; not your face. i agree with the anonymous person who said that any other style makes them look like bandits; which is a style that is not condoned in the orthodox church.

11:08 PM  
Anonymous mary of egypt said...

Gotta go with Stacie, but this leads to the question of rrationale for modest dress; to make things easier for men, nationalist reasons or, the best, religious reasons; and though Christians and Muslims veil for some of the same reasons there are differences.

Muslim women over marriage age can loosen up on the headgear (of course traditon and culture may negate this option, but, if I'm not mistaken this reason is listed in the Koran itself,) but for Christian women, attractiveness to opposite sex is not the main reason,submission and obedience to God and the Church and following the natural order of creation-Christ-man-woman are the primary reasons. Christian women are NOT
required by religion to cover their faces, let alone burqas and such.

I agree that a return to modesty and even Christian veiling (head and hair, not neck, shoulders, etc. that's not about Christ) would be a welcome change.

Now gentlemen, if you'll do me the favor of wearing the offensively named 'wifebeaters' hidden under your shirt where they belong (it's soooo lowclass when they're visible in public)and stop wearing shorts we can call this a day!

3:23 AM  

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